Podcast Ep. 124 Transcript – When, Why, and How to Add an Associate Optometrist with Erich Mattei

[00:00:00] Hey, everybody. Welcome back to The Optometry Money Podcast, where we’re helping ODs all over the country, make better and better decisions around their money, their careers, and their practices. I am your host, Evon Mendrin, Certified Financial Planner(TM) practitioner, and owner of Optometry Wealth Advisors an independent financial planning firm just for optometrist nationwide.

[00:00:25] Ed, thank you so much for listening today. Really appreciate your time and attention. And on today’s episode, I am excited to have Erich Mattei of Akrinos back on the podcast. And we dive into all things, hiring an associate for your optometry practice. We talk about reasons and motivations to bring in that associate.

[00:00:45] And we talked about certain data and financial points to decide when it’s time to bring on that additional associate.

[00:00:52] We talk about what the owners should look for in an associate, how to structure compensation. Best practices in implementation and so much more.

[00:01:01] With such a big decision for an optometry practice, whether or whether not to add on the associate, and when. There was a lot to learn from here with Erich

[00:01:09] so really appreciate Erich’s time. You can catch all of Erich’s contact information and all the resources and stuff we mentioned in this episode, in the show notes, which you can find either by scrolling down on whatever app you’re using or at the education hub at my website, www.optometrywealth.Com.

[00:01:27] And while we’re there, if you’re interested in what it looks like to work with an Optometry specific financial planning firm, reach out, love to chat with you over a no commitment. No pressure introductory call.

[00:01:37] And we can talk about what’s on your mind financially in how we help optometrists solve those same questions and issues nationwide. And without further ado here is my conversation with Erich Mattei. .

[00:01:50] Welcome back, everybody, to the Optometry Money Podcast. I am your host, Evon Mendrin, and I am excited to be joined once again by Mr. Erich Matte of Akrinos. Erich, thank you so much for coming on.

[00:02:05] Evon, man, thanks for having me back. Looking forward to today’s session.

[00:02:08] Yeah, I’m excited to dive into a question or maybe a series of questions around When it’s time for a single doctor, owner, practice to bring on an associate and this is something that I’ve been thinking about a lot just in my conversations with clients, with other doctors, but then I’ve seen some of your writings online as well

[00:02:30] Reasons and Motivations to Hire an Optometrist

[00:02:30] and so I wanted to have you on to dive a little bit more into this because maybe the listener is interested.

[00:02:34] One of those owners of a single doctor practice, maybe they’ve been thinking about it. Maybe they’re reaching either some capacity or they want a little bit more freedom in their time. Or maybe they read an article online and are wondering, Hey, should I bring on an associate? Shouldn’t I? Does it make sense?

[00:02:51] Or maybe the listener is wanting to, but afraid, uncertain about it. All right. And so I want to dive more into that and just kind of open it up with a question and What are some of the motivations, some of the reasons, business or otherwise, that a, an owner of a single doctor practice should bring on an associate?

[00:03:13] That’s a great question to kick off this conversation, Evon. And, you know, the fact is you can go and start searching around and find all these different reasons, like these long lists of reasons, when’s the right time, et cetera, et cetera. But really, it boils down to, to really two considerations. And that is where, where, where you, the practice owner, are either looking for more time or looking for more money, right?

[00:03:42] Again, we can start going down these lists and build these lengthy lists of when is the right time to add that associate, but really if you kind of tie it back to the, the motivations, it really ties back to as the owner of the business, are you seeking to generate more money out of your business, the likes of which scaling operations with a second provider is going to be imperative, or are you just simply looking to have more time out of office?

[00:04:09] In which case, having that associate provider there to maintain the business is going to be a critical piece of that equation.

[00:04:16] Yeah, one, two very different motivations, one financially driven or, or maybe just business plan driven and one more personal lifestyle driven, it sounds like. And so from a financial standpoint, winning more money out of the practice, that’s trying to get over capacity hurdles.

[00:04:34] Am I hearing that correctly? And so a doctor maybe is finding out that they are getting booked out X amount of weeks on their schedule, or they’re just realizing, okay, they’re hitting a plateau. They need to take their business to a next level by bringing in an additional doctor. opening up more capacity to meet that demand and additional revenue and profit that may come with that.

[00:04:55] Is that essentially what we’re talking about?

[00:04:58] Yeah, yeah, Evon, you’re really hitting the nail on the head. And particularly, I think it’s important at this time also to kind of invite everyone to start thinking about this slightly differently, right? Because the fact is, you know, a lot of doctors in their practice and even those of us around the industry, right?

[00:05:13] We always talk about growth, growth, growth. But I think now it’s time that we really start to question, is it growth that we want or is it scalability that we want? And, you know, when we look at private practice healthcare, private practice optometry, which is conventionally an owner operator business, it’s difficult to scale, right?

[00:05:32] Because without the owner in the lane serving patients, everything comes to a grinding halt. So, that’s actually one of the things I was looking forward to and unpacking in this conversation with you, Evon, is, So it’s changing this thinking from growth to really think about scale. And when you start thinking about scale, it’s about how can more things be done without a single person necessarily having to put in more time or more effort.

[00:05:58] And when we’re looking at the fact that we still need doctors to be taking care of patients, adding an associate provider is key to scaling the business, right?

[00:06:08] So that’s, that’s an interesting. distinction between the two. I think a lot of times we can, we can combine those two as if growth is always scaling.

[00:06:17] And sometimes you might see those terms sort of used interchangeably, but they’re very different. Yes. Growth, you can grow, you can increase revenue, but you might see costs increase along with it, whether it’s time or, I mean, literally cost in terms of the financials. Sure. Scale is really about. doing more with the same or increasing your revenue while maintaining costs, getting more revenue out of the same or similar amounts of costs, right?

[00:06:44] There’s, there is a difference between the two.

[00:06:46] Absolutely. And, and as it were, I mean, I suppose the simplest terms I like to look at is like growth means that we’re, if we’re growing, we’re presumably working harder, whereas when we’re scaling, we’re presumably, well, work a little bit smarter. And I think now in optometry, Evon, when we look at all of the amazing technologies that are available to, to practices and to doctors in their business, now is the, the market is ripe for scale, but by the same token, doctors need to be open to some of these newer ways of thinking, right?

[00:07:24] I mean, look, a perfect case in point is like the role of AI. in some of this stuff, right? Or e commerce, you know, I have similar conversations. I know Dr. Brianna Rue, you know, co founder of Dr. Contact Lens. She and I have had many conversations about this, how to scale the doctor, how to scale the practice.

[00:07:41] And well, you can’t do it if you’re kind of staying stuck in the way these businesses were being run back in the nineties,

[00:07:48] you know? Yeah. Using technology to allow the doctor to do what the doctor does best and being able to delegate those other things.

[00:07:58] Absolutely, absolutely. And utilizing all of the tools and resources available, right?

[00:08:04] And that’s then where I think when we start to then look at growing the patient’s scene, that’s where this role of an associate provider comes into play, right? Because there are some elements of the business that can be scaled with a single doctor, but then ultimately you start to hit these points where, to really make that next step, it is going to be about bringing in that associate provider.

[00:08:27] Yeah, I’m curious what you’ve seen in terms of just capacity of a one doctor practice, because I know, I’m sure you and I have both seen examples of one doctor practices working five patient days can reasonably hit over a million dollars of gross revenue. A lot of times I’ve heard observed where a single doctor practice is sort of hitting this plateau 800, 000 to 900, 000 of gross revenue or so.

[00:08:53] You know, maybe they’re working four doctor days, uh, with one day of administration, of marketing, of operational work, different things like that. What have you seen? I mean, have you seen sort of similar plateaus, similar points of capacity constraints? Where do you typically see that capacity constraint come in?

[00:09:12] Absolutely. That’s a really, really great question, Evon. And it also brings up this whole topic of, as you see so often in business, right? What comes first, the chicken or the egg, right? And this also, this is something that I think for a lot of practice owners is where things get kind of a little uncomfortable, a little confusing.

[00:09:28] Like, when is the right time to do this? But to answer your question as far as what is the true capacity potential of a single doctor practice, You know, which you were hitting at, kind of this nine, you know, the eight, nine mil range. That’s, you know, that’s kind of starting to get there. If we’re using a lot of the, what I would say, more antiquated systems and approaches to the business.

[00:09:58] Because what we do see is when doctors do embrace technology. When they find ways to empower and delegate more to their teams, when they create a true strategic plan that’s, you know, the, the, the appropriate times to make these big moves in the business, a single doctor practice can easily go 1. 2, 1. 3, or in some cases, even 1.

[00:10:22] 4 mil of production on single doctor, but at the same time, Evon, Evon. Do know that you’re not going to become a 1. 3, 1. 4 million dollar single doctor practice. if you’re doing stuff the way it was being done back in like 1995 or even 2005, right? So it’s, it’s really a matter of kind of getting with the times and the context of the business with systems, with operations, with supply chain, with retail, and all these other, I suppose, then getting more of the technical kind of operational elements that a lot of our work in Akrinos, we’re working with doctors and their strategic growth planning.

[00:11:00] You know, these types of analytics that we evaluate and some of the decisions that we’re looking to help them optimize in the business.

[00:11:07] So I, I’m curious then about the second motivation in terms of just buying more time. Tell me more about that. What are you seeing in terms of the doctors you’re talking to?

[00:11:18] What are they thinking about as they want to buy themselves more time and, and add to their lifestyle? What are some of the things you’re seeing as you’re talking to them about that?

[00:11:26] Yeah, you know, Evon, that really is reflective of where they are in their life. Right, so, you know, that doctor who perhaps has small children or school aged children that’s really worked their tail off their first number of years in private practice and has gotten their business humming along and they’d like to maybe step back a little bit to spend a little bit more time with the family, right?

[00:11:49] And by the way, y’all, for our listeners out there, Sometimes you think time is just for people that are like approaching retirement, but let’s get real. I mean, and Evon, I know we were talking before we go live, I know, you know, your household is on the cusp of welcoming another, another, another baby and stuff, and you talk a lot about parenthood and balancing parenthood and, you know, professional ambition and entrepreneurship.

[00:12:10] So again, the same applies in the practice. So we’re talking about time, right? Where are you in your, in your business life cycle and how can more time afford you to live that life you’d like to lead? So. If you’re in the earlier years, presumably you’re a younger doctor. And if you have children, they’re presumably a bit younger.

[00:12:29] So perhaps the motivation there in finding the associate is that you could have time to go coach the little league team or go to the dance recital or something. Now, in that context, the time sought is presumably a little bit of time sought because, you know, you’re still in kind of your peak earnings years of your business.

[00:12:48] So you really need to be, you as the doctor do need to be in there seeing patients. Yep. Yeah. Um, to, to really get this thing to, to that top level. But, so what are you wanting the time for? So if you’re early in practice ownership and you would like a little more time to perhaps spend more time with your family or perhaps, Take to a hobby that you’re interested in.

[00:13:08] I know we’ve got a lot of athletes out there and optometry may be training for things. Then you’d be looking to bring on an associate. Now, are you going to be looking to bring on an associate and promise them two or three days a week? Probably not. Now you won’t exactly know until you actually dig into your analytics.

[00:13:23] And I know this is work that you do and Optometry Wealth Advisors, you know, more on the personal wealth planning side. Obviously at Akrinos, we do a lot of this analysis in the context of the business and what can the business support do. Yeah. So perhaps earlier, if you’re looking for just that extra day a week or afternoon a week to go coach the little league team, then maybe you’re just looking for an associate to come in and do one day a week with you.

[00:13:46] But then we fast forward and we look as you’re getting further into your business life cycle. And presumably the business is becoming more sustainable and hopefully more profitable. If not reach out to Karinas, right. But, but in that context, then what we’re looking to free up time. Well, then perhaps it’s not looking for an area doctor that can give us one day a week, but maybe we’re looking for a bit more consistent, true associate to the business.

[00:14:12] And then ultimately, when you’re approaching the retirement years, you’re really eyeing that, and presumably you’re really wanting to reduce your, your patient load, that’s going to be the time to lean into the full time associate, right? And presumably, hopefully. , and if not, I would implore you to really take some time to reflect on it.

[00:14:36] That’s when you need to also be looking at that full-time associate being on a path to partnership. Mm-hmm . And Evon, I’d love to unpack that in another conversation here, but let’s get back to focusing here just on, I, I wanna

[00:14:46] ask about that briefly, but I, I do want to, I just wanna highlight what you’re talking about because there are, you know, I think we have this sort of.

[00:14:55] conception that okay, you can’t buy yourself time freedom until you’re about to exit. I think a lot of times we can find ourselves that in that scenario, in that way of thinking that okay, that’s something that you do when you’re about to retire. And that’s certainly the case, especially if you are getting closer to the point where you want to exit, you want to sort of sunset your time in the practice, start to focus on other things in your life, preserve the value of that practice, make sure that the revenues continue to come in, patients are continuing to be seen.

[00:15:22] Certainly, adding that associate can buy you time later on in your career, but I have examples of conversations here on the podcast. I think Dr. Andy Yarian is one. If I’m remembering correctly, I mean, he, he was burned out. He has a young family, growing family. He was burned out. I mean, that’s an example of growth, of growth.

[00:15:44] Revenue was growing, profit was growing, but his efforts were growing. He was constantly burned out. He was constantly burned out. And so bringing in that help, bringing in those associates, allowed himself to free himself time to not only just have a better relationship with his business, but to fulfill his, his desires to be more with his family, with his kids, and some of those other things.

[00:16:04] There is a personal financial planning and a business financial planning aspect to that, because you do want to make sure that your personal finances are met, you’re able to tackle some of those important personal finance goals, but Even mid career with younger families, you still can buy yourself time.

[00:16:20] It may not be the full associate schedule, it may not be four or five patient days a week, but you can do that. And I have examples of even just clients I know that, like myself, are welcoming new babies to the family, having those associates allow them to take more time to step away, be with their children a little bit more.

[00:16:39] Because they knew that patients were still being seen. So that, that is really getting to, okay, what are you wanting out of your business? Because a lot of you listeners, probably got into private practice because you want more control and freedom. More control and freedom over the patient experience, the type of care, scope of care you want to provide.

[00:16:56] But importantly, how that business interacts and your work interacts with your personal life. And so, really thinking about what do you want out of this business? What does it mean to your life and to your family? Really can help you do that because that’s not purely a financially driven decision. It’s more of a values driven decision.

[00:17:15] And that’s okay. You know, it doesn’t need to be purely financially driven. One last thing I just want to ask you, Erich, is, is how does succession planning or contingency planning sort of play into that thinking too? Like what, how does that factor into this decision?

[00:17:33] Yeah, that’s a really, really great question, Evon.

[00:17:36] And you know, one of those things that has changed radically in recent years, right? Because quite frankly, ever since private equity came on the scene about 10 years ago, right? So this was recording in early 2025. years ago that we saw private equity really make a surge into the optometry space. And well, that’s changed a lot of things.

[00:17:57] And what I think has changed most notably is kind of a wake up call for doctors to be more proactive in planning their future, right? In other words, don’t be disillusioned by the fact that we had some private equity come through and perhaps you had a classmate that sold to private equity, but don’t think that you’re going to walk to the mailbox one day or don’t expect, I’ll say this, don’t expect to walk to the mailbox one day and get a letter from a private equity offering to write you a bigger check than you could ever imagine for your business.

[00:18:31] Quite frankly, that’s the exception, not the rule. But to take it a step further, and this is where I think things get really interesting, Evon, is that, and you know this, because I mean, analytics, it’s a matter of how you’re going to spend time with your numbers, right? Because the fact is, when you start digging into it, you can come to see that, you can come to see that, Hmm.

[00:18:55] Maybe I can be more proactive in my business today when I have a longer runway to retirement and be proactive in bringing on an entrepreneurial associate and get them on the path to partnership, the likes of which net net personal wealth would serve you better than the single big payday from that private equity, which by the way, then it’s going to work you like a slave.

[00:19:17] And actually it’s questionable as far as to what degree patience and your staff. want to be employed by these entities, right? Yeah. You may not like

[00:19:26] the way that deal looks on the other side.

[00:19:29] No, absolutely not. As a matter of fact, Evon, look, I’ve got a, I’ve got an essay that’s been run as a two part article series in the Review of Optometric Business that unpacks this.

[00:19:37] As a matter of fact, part one was published just earlier this year, part two, well, it was released this week. So please y’all go check out, go to reviewob. com, search my name, E R I C H M A T T E I, and you’ll see this, this two part series, because what we do there, Evon, is that You know, that statement that I just made, it’s questionable how much your patients are going to want to seek care at this entity, and it’s questionable how you will professionally be fulfilled.

[00:20:05] This essay actually cites the sources that are now uncovering this data. You know, it’s fascinating that now we’re far enough into the corporatization of iCare that now we’re starting to get our, get data. You know, you’ve got think tanks coming out of Stanford, you’ve got think tanks coming out of, you know, UC Berkeley, University of Chicago, these economic think tanks, these healthcare economic think tanks with these brilliant PhDs and all they do is analyze this stuff.

[00:20:36] Y’all, the data is out there, the data is out there that providers, patients, and communities are best served by private practice healthcare. So I think now we live in a fascinating time where now that we have access to this data and we kind of see the facts, and then with some advanced analytics that you can get into and looking at the numbers of the business, same way in financial planning, right?

[00:21:00] Optometry Wealth Advisors, there’s new ways that you can look at analytics for wealth planning that even 10 years ago you wouldn’t be capable of doing. So I think now is a remarkable opportunity for doctors who really do want to take control of their future and not hold out for a private equity or a corporate buyer in the same way.

[00:21:22] We can say, take control of your future and not rely on some managed care plan to raise your reimbursement by five bucks. And considering that your pay raise, like there’s a whole lot of things we can do, you know, as a matter of fact, that’s a really cool topic in and of itself. You know, Dr. Chris Lopez.

[00:21:38] I think we might save this for a second conversation because I’d like to dive into this specific topic a little bit more, but it does sound like part of that motivation then for looking for an associate isn’t just the capacity, but it’s, okay, now let’s, let’s plan a succession for my business and let’s de risk the business a little bit so that it’s not entirely on your shoulders.

[00:21:58] Now, if something happened to you, the owner doctor, you know, that patients can continue to be served. and still maintain the value of that business in the worst case scenarios, you know, in terms of really contingency planning. So that’s certainly a motivation as well to making sure that the risk of your business is, is brought down.

[00:22:16] And there is a plan for succession. You know that you can exit. There is a market for your business that fits according to your desires. And if that’s the, if that’s the way you want to go. So we’ve got a few motivations then we’ve got capacity or financial motivations. We’ve got, or just, or just entrepreneurial business growth motivations.

[00:22:33] We have personal time, buying time freedom motivations, and we have a little bit of succession planning, contingency planning as well.

[00:22:42] Data / Financial Indicators It’s Time to Hire an Associate OD

[00:22:42] What are some of the, we’ll call it data points. What are, what are some of the numbers that suggest to you, depending on what your motivation is. Now’s the time. What are some of the things that doctors should be looking at in their business to tell them it’s time to start looking?

[00:22:59] Yeah. Yeah. So convey, by the way, there’s a lot of ways to look at this, right? I mean, as we were talking before we go live, there’s a lot of really cool ways to look at analytics these days, but you know, genErichally speaking, I suppose that the classic approach would be like, you know, Hey, if you’re booked two weeks out, it’s time to add an associate.

[00:23:16] You know, that’s kind of the conventional thinking. But as it were, it gets, it gets, I would argue that we could be far more strategic than that, right? And I’ll say this, one of the first things to understand is truly what is the profitability of this business? Because understand that when you do bring in that doctor, their wage is going to, it’s, it’s part of doctor wages.

[00:23:39] It’s part of doctor compensation. So understand from the very beginning that Unless they’re coming in and they’re going to do something to really move this needle, you’re simply paying them other money that would have otherwise perhaps been in your pocket. But, but look, trade offs, right? Because in the case of, I know you mentioned one of your guests that was on the show that, you know, added an associate because, hey, he was just, he wasn’t as fulfilled in the day to day of the business.

[00:24:08] He had other things that he wanted to get involved in. So he was happy to give up some of that money to hire someone to then afford him the time. Okay. So there’s, there’s something to be said for that. But when we are looking at the economics of the business, it is imperative that everyone understand that doctor compensation, we want to lump as one category, whether it’s one doc, two doc, or goodness, half a dozen docs across four locations.

[00:24:32] We want to have everything bundled into this, this, this doctor compensation piece. So understanding that, and do we have the bandwidth for that?

[00:24:39] Importance of Chair Cost

[00:24:39] To take it a step further, it’s imperative to consider chair cost. And this is one of those calculations that is so overlooked. I mean, dare I say it’s forgotten about oftentimes, right?

[00:24:55] You know, doctors will go, you know, rightly so, you go to the event, you connect with some of your peers, maybe at the local society meeting, and people are talking about their practice. So what’s everybody talking about? They’re talking about the fun stuff. They’re talking about the sexy stuff, like how much gross revenue they have, or, you know, this cool new 200, 000 piece of equipment that’s doing, well, hopefully it’s doing something.

[00:25:21] If not, that’s a lot of note to carry or something. That’s a different podcast

[00:25:24] episode, yeah.

[00:25:25] Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But where I’m going with this, Evon, is that Calculating share costs, it’s something that unfortunately is so radically forgotten about, and yet, if you ask me, it’s arguably one of the most important analytics that you can crunch in the practice.

[00:25:40] And what is that share cost? You understand exactly what your cost is of seeing a patient. So it’s a matter of assessing all of your fixed costs, what do we need to keep this thing humming along, and then break it down to understand each patient, what’s that going to look like. Now there’s a lot of applications then.

[00:25:59] of utilizing share costs, but as it pertains to bringing on the new provider, it’s really a matter of understanding what type of production is that provider going to be capable of, understanding that we do have this cost we need to cover. Okay, so this is when we get into things revolving around are we, how are we setting that associate provider up for success?

[00:26:28] Are we providing them the tools and resources they need to be successful? Whether it’s team, whether it’s equipment, whether it’s infrastructure or anything else, right? Because if we, if you as the, if you as the owner are seeing patients, and let’s just pull some numbers out of the air, Evon, let’s say that your revenue per patient is, you know, 350 revenue per patient, and those chair costs are, say, 180.

[00:26:53] Again, just pulling numbers out of the air here. Well, understand if you bring that associate in and they’re not able to keep pace with your three 50,

[00:27:03] ah, interesting. That’s

[00:27:04] not a good look.

[00:27:05] Yes.

[00:27:06] So that’s where, that’s where we look to really, you’re wanting to seek out an associate provider that has complimentary skillset

[00:27:14] that can revenue per OD hour.

[00:27:17] I mean, they can, they can continue that. Yeah.

[00:27:19] Not only maintain it, but actually increase it. And that’s where I do, that’s where it’s, it’s amazing to see modern optometry and what new grads are capable of doing out of optometry school. You know, Evon, I do work closely with the AmErichan Optometric Association Center for Independent Practice.

[00:27:39] And through that, I’ve had the honor of going into some of our colleges of optometry across the U. S. and teaching students about business, teaching students about the path to associateship, the path to partnership. Obviously, that’s what I’m all about, right? Let’s teach these students how to position themselves for ownership if it’s something they want to do.

[00:27:58] But the reason why I’m bringing that up is because in so doing, I get the opportunity to go on these campuses. Dude, it will blow your freaking mind what optometrists are being taught in the modern era. So now we look at these legacy practices. And hey, you docs out there that have been practicing for 20, 25, 30 years, 35 years, I’m talking to y’all.

[00:28:23] Because in all likelihood, perhaps you’ve made some advancements in your practice. But I’m willing to bet that there’s still a lot of your practice that’s kind of still the way that you were practicing when you came on the scene. Fair enough? Yeah. So now we look at what these new optometrists can do in bringing a whole new scope of care to your business.

[00:28:52] And now’s where we start to really see these things happen because now it’s not, okay, I hope this young doctor. can wow these patients and have them purchasing the eyewear out of my optical the way I do or have the patient purchasing the year supply of contact lenses the way I do as a legacy doctor.

[00:29:12] I’ll tell you right now, out of the blocks, they’re not going to be able to, they can’t do that. I’ll tell you right now. And how do I know this? Because one of the things they’re not being taught at all in optometry school is retail and sales and sales language and handoff language and all these other things you get into that really drives production.

[00:29:30] Okay. So while it would be a dream to think that they’re going to be able to maintain the optical retail revenue and the materials revenue, the way you have been able to do legacy in your business. If we’re relying on them doing that, I caution you. They are not going to maintain that revenue head yet.

[00:29:49] They’re still going to have that same chair cost in your business. Yeah. So this is where it’s a matter of looking at all of these aspects of eye care that you as a legacy doctor. have not yet incorporated into your business. And that is where you want to find the associate. That young associate that can do this full scope of medical that maybe, maybe you were never comfortable doing, right?

[00:30:12] Interesting. Yeah, not only

[00:30:14] the comprehensive eye exam, but they are able to add in potentially specialties or see complex medical cases that maybe were not able to be served before opening up, you know, almost a new source of patient demand.

[00:30:28] Absolutely. Full scope. It’s called full scope optometry. And quite frankly, Evon, like this is where I’ll reference back to that essay that I wrote that, that review of optometry businesses running, you know, y’all, this is big.

[00:30:40] This is big. Like we, we are facing a huge, massive public health deficits, unless we have optometrists practicing at the full scope top of license. We need our, we need our ophthalmologists. In the surgery center, in the operating room, okay, we need optometry to practice full scope medical top of license optometry.

[00:31:07] And we need optometry to empower their para optometric teams and their opticians to step up and perhaps get involved in a bit more of the vision than old school optometry would have been, would have been into. It’s all a matter of economics, man. It really is. It’s, it’s, it’s fascinating when you start to look at some of these, some of this data now that’s coming out of some of these healthcare think tanks, it’s really fascinating.

[00:31:30] And I believe while some would be like, Oh my gosh, it’s scary. Evon, that’s where I think we live in an amazing time and the future is so incredibly bright in private practice optometry.

[00:31:44] I’m certainly going to. I’m going to throw those into the show notes, so anyone, whatever platform you’re looking on, scroll down to the show notes, you’ll see that article in there, but let’s go back to these factors here.

[00:31:56] So number one, I think is, is, should be obvious, but maybe it’s not, is know your numbers, right? Have clean, accurate accounting, please, optometry, practice owners. Have clean, accurate accounting that’s timely and usable. Know your chair costs, right? So what does it cost to put a patient in the chair? What are your fixed costs?

[00:32:15] And then know what your revenue per OD hour or, you know, revenue per exam, however you want to measure that. So you can compare the expected revenue you might be bringing in per, per patient you’re going to see. So knowing your numbers is, is number one. It sounds like the next thing you talked about was patient demand, right?

[00:32:32] So there needs to be patient demand. If you’re going to, if, if your goal is to try to creep through a capacity constraint, you do need to have the patient demand in order to, to do that. Otherwise, it sounds like the owner doctor is just simply gonna be cannibalizing their own income. And on the other side of that, if it’s more lifestyle driven, then you may be planning for that.

[00:32:51] That might be intentional, but if it’s capacity driven. growth driven, scale driven, to use the better term, then there has to be that patient demand. It sounds like that’s traditionally looked at as two weeks booked out or more. It sounds like that’s the traditional measure of just scheduling. What is the patient demand?

[00:33:08] And then you can look at, okay, do you have the infrastructure? You mentioned infrastructure, so I’m assuming that’s space. So do you have the space to bring on an additional doctor? Do you have an exam lane? Do you need to build one out? Do you have staff technology to allow for additional patients?

[00:33:24] Because it’s one thing to have the patient demand, but if you can’t fulfill the patient demand because, because of infrastructure, then that revenue number is not going to meet the chair cost. And in fact, you might be increasing the chair cost, right? Because now you have to then increase fixed costs. So that’s something to look at to say, okay, can you reasonably.

[00:33:44] fulfill that patient demand, knowing your numbers, knowing the cost to see a patient, and then knowing just what your infrastructure looks like. Did I miss anything? Does that sound like a pretty good summary of what you talked about?

[00:33:57] Absolutely, Evon. And I, and I, I think what I, what I really want to highlight there is the difference between conventional primary care refractive optometry and modern full scope eye care.

[00:34:15] Oh, that optometrists are practicing, right? So, so two, two differences. And so I’m really glad that you highlighted those as you were kind of doing a recap.

[00:34:25] And maybe you can even see that for the listener. You can potentially see that just in how many times you’re referring out for, for certain conditions.

[00:34:32] I mean, you can probably get a sense for how often, you know, how much demand for these services are, are really in your practice already that you’re not fulfilling that could be if you were to hire an associate that’s well trained by, by the education they’re getting.

[00:34:47] How the Ability to Find an Associate Optometrist Factors In

[00:34:47] And how about the ability to find an optometrist?

[00:34:50] It may not be an issue in, you know, metropolitan areas, but you might imagine there are plenty of. Role Practices that have plenty of opportunity for an associate doctor, plenty of opportunity even for a potential partner, but just can’t find the doctor. Like how, what have you seen around that? Just how easy or difficult it is to find an associate doctor?

[00:35:14] I’ll say this, Evon. If your interest in hiring an associate doctor is something you keep a secret and you’re the only person that knows about it. You’re going to have a really hard time. But, if you broadcast it to the world, you share it with your community, you get in touch with your state association and let them know that you’re looking, you get the list of the new grads that just tested or folks that just got licensed in your state.

[00:35:44] As a matter of fact, as we’re recording this, it’s early 25, so you know, they do licensing, you know, mid year. The new, the new grads will be coming to the state and taking their tests, right? So, lean into your state association, y’all. Lean into your state association. Number one, don’t keep it a secret.

[00:36:01] Number two, get involved. Get out there in your community with other doctors, right? Meet doctors. Go to the networking events. But don’t keep it a secret. And that is absolutely, Evon, look, we have, we, we, we have, we have seen, we have seen doctors go in halfsies with a good friend of theirs, one town over, and go like 50 50 on hiring an associate, and then within, within a year, the associate goes all in with one of them.

[00:36:35] And do you want to know why? Why? Because, because, The other, the other counterpart over here, one town over, was kind of secretive about what their intent was for that associate. Whereas the other doctor, a town over, that ultimately ended up pulling that doctor in to buy their practice, they didn’t keep it a secret.

[00:36:56] They started, it was part of the dialogue from day one in having that associate come and even work one day a week in the office. Then one became two, the next thing you know, that’s, that’s now the legacy buying the business. So I would say in all of this, the number one thing, number one thing, if you want to hire an associate, is be proactive and don’t keep it a secret.

[00:37:23] Open communication. I mean, you’re marketing your business to not only patients, but to future team members, right? And the way that your website comes off, the way you talk about it with your peers, your scope of care, the technology you’re using, the patient experience, like you’re, you’re. I’ve seen this from, from other financial planning firms and just other businesses that you, you are marketing yourself to two different groups.

[00:37:46] You are marketing yourself to future potential patients or customers, and you’re marketing yourself to potential team members. Because they’re going to want to know your story, what makes you different, what is the experience working at your clinic versus others. They want to know what they’re going to learn and get out of that experience as well.

[00:38:07] So that’s, I don’t think we think about our businesses in that way a lot of the times. And that open communication, man, how many times have I seen the The story of, of not really knowing what the next step is for that optometrist in the practice they’re going into, whether it was because of promises that were never fulfilled, the, the old story of the succession plan that never was, or whether there was just no clear communication in terms of what’s next, how many days are coming up next, what’s the path forward.

[00:38:41] And that, I think that open communication is so important.

[00:38:43] What Should The Owner Look For In An Associate Optometrist?

[00:38:43] What should the owner look for in an associate? And does that differ based on the, the motivation?

[00:38:52] I would, I would say number one, Evon, is someone that aligns in mission, vision, and purpose, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s just like with hiring a new member to your team, you know, you know, Oh, I need to hire a new optician, how should I kind of qualify somebody or whatever, right?

[00:39:11] Look, it all ties back to mission, vision, purpose. You can teach people. operations. You can teach people technicalities. You can’t teach commitment to mission, vision, purpose. So that’s number one. Now, presumably they align in mission, vision, purpose, and they do have a head on their shoulders. So they are capable of some of the technical, um, demands of, of, of, of the role.

[00:39:38] But again, it goes, it goes without saying that it’s a number one thing is mission, vision, and purpose. And also I’d say to, to kind of. To kind of bolster that, to go back to what we were just talking about, and that’s the open communication piece. So that’s kind of number two, right? This associate must align with the mission, vision, and purpose of your business.

[00:40:02] Remember, they are going to be the face of your business in serving those patients. So it is imperative, not only serving those patients, but also interacting with your team. I mean, heaven forbid you hire an associate and then when you’re doing your day a week out of the office or whatever, you come back and you get reports from your administrator or your, you know, your office manager, Hey, I don’t know about this new doctor we brought in.

[00:40:28] This is what I saw them doing. This is what I discovered. Right? So number one, mission, vision, purpose. Number two. Open communication. And that also lends itself to, as we’re talking about the degree to which now is the time, now is the time for associateship to get on a partner path, that open communication needs to be all the more part of it, right?

[00:40:51] Got it. And I’ll tell you, Evon, look, there are enough, there are enough corporate, private equity, and hospital system entities out there that are paying top dollar to hire doctors to their business.

[00:41:09] I don’t have a hard survey. I don’t have hard numbers on this, but if you just kind of start to put the pieces together, you can kind of come to realize, huh, if they’re paying that much for doctors to come and join them, again, the corporates, the private equity, and the hospital systems, then what is the motivation for a doctor to go, to go anchor their wagon to, to a private practice?

[00:41:35] And I’m willing to bet that the vast majority of them, they want that ownership opportunity. So tying back to it, what to look for in the associate, mission, vision, purpose, and open communication from day one. Got it.

[00:41:50] How to Structure Associate Optometrist Compensation

[00:41:50] Yeah, that makes sense. And how does, how does the owner think about compensation structures?

[00:41:56] What frameworks that they should think about to figure out, okay, what and how should I pay that associate?

[00:42:02] Yeah, that’s a really great question, especially now when it’s ever more competitive to hire doctors, right? Look, 30 years ago, there was no such thing as private equity and optometry. Corporate optometry was, was, was a fraction of what it is now.

[00:42:18] And these hospital systems, or not nearly the size they were, okay? So, 30 years ago, the compensation conversation was far less complicated, if you will. But fast forward to where we are now with so much competition recruiting doctors as a private practice, it is imperative that you have a robust compensation plan that folks are gonna, folks are not gonna feel like they’re wasting their time being a part of.

[00:42:48] Okay, so that consists of what? That consists of salary, that consists of bonus on production. If we want them to be vested in the growth of our business, we need to be, we need to invest in them to be vested in the growth. So salary, bonus based on their production, and benefits. Now, by the way, benefits can come in so many different shapes and sizes, right?

[00:43:11] I know, Evon, in the work you do in Optometry Wealth Advisors, I know you can help practice owners figure out what’s going to be in their best interest for their group and also for themselves, okay? Okay. But think about what doctors starting their career or early in their career, what are they looking for?

[00:43:27] They’re looking for salary. They want to be a part of the growth. Let’s give them some benefits. By the way, y’all, there’s a lot of really cool ways you can do benefits. Don’t think because I just said benefits that, oh my gosh, I need to do like health insurance and all this stuff. There’s a lot of really cool ways you can offer some remarkable benefits that doesn’t necessarily cost the business a ton.

[00:43:45] Right? But then from there, I encourage people to get a bit deeper in it. I say I encourage people the work that we do within Akrinos and clients that are bringing on associates. And when we put together these associate comp plans, we take them a step further and we really want to help this associate understand how they can be a part of the growth and actually how they can, how they can play an active role in their own success.

[00:44:11] So in so doing to structure the plan in such a way that right there. Everyone can see clearly the numbers on patient volumes, breakeven patient volumes, and by the way, when I say breakeven patient volumes, I mean the breakeven to get your business in the sweet spot of Associate Comp. By the way, the sweet spot of Associate Comp is like 15 19 percent of their collections Not their billed revenue, but the actual collections that we receive in the business, that they’re getting somewhere in this range of 15 to 19 percent of that.

[00:44:48] That’s the sweet spot, but understand there’s a different ways to get into the sweet spot for a doctor that may have a lower revenue per head. How are they going to get that sweet spot? Got to be volume based. Does our compensation plan illustrate that so that our new associate clearly understands. what the expectations are.

[00:45:09] Conversely, that sweet spot can be achieved by doing what? Increasing that revenue per head. Once again, chair costs staying the same, increasing that revenue per head, in which case, what? They may not have to see as many patients. So, does the compensation plan illustrate how changes in that revenue per head, with those controlled chair costs, is going to impact the economics.

[00:45:35] It’s going to impact the patient volume that they’re, that they’re being asked to see. And where it really comes together, and I’ll tell you, Evon, and you know, firsthand from working with the credo’s clients through this stuff, it’s really amazing when you get that associate. It’s like, I want to see an extra patient a day.

[00:45:55] And I’m going to become a rock star to drive that revenue per patient. And that’s when you start to see these things really hum and really start to turn. And it’s a win win for everybody, right? Yes.

[00:46:05] Yeah. Both sides win when the, the associates more productive in that case.

[00:46:09] Absolutely. So you’re,

[00:46:10] you’re seeing commonly, and I’m seeing commonly as well, some minimum salary amount.

[00:46:15] Which makes sense. I think an associate doctor wants to know that there’s some minimal amount of income to cover at least just necessary expensive. Very commonly then production bonuses on top of that. And, and one of the most common, I don’t know, complaints that I see, one of the most common things that are frustrating to the associate in those cases.

[00:46:34] What’s very heavily production is that they’re not sure what the numbers are. I mean, they’re, they’re not really sure what formula drives that number. They’re not really able to see their production amount. That open communication goes a long way. Just from, just from what I’m seeing in many of the conversations I’m having, many of the groups that I’m in having that communication.

[00:46:57] And I, I do think in, in addition to ownership opportunities, One of the things that I’m commonly seeing, they’re not getting in these larger employers is that mentorship or camaraderie is being able to sit down with you, the senior doctor, go over the charts and say, how, like you met, like you were just talking about, Erich, how can we improve my work as an optometrist?

[00:47:18] How can we improve revenue per opportunity? You know, how do we, how do we drive improved results? And I think that mentorship goes a long way just from what I’m hearing. Are you, are you seeing similar things? What are your thoughts on that?

[00:47:30] Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, and this is where I’ll invite, I’ll invite doctors, you know, think back to where you were earlier in your career, you know, and what you were seeking as a younger doctor in those early years starting out.

[00:47:42] And think about those of your colleagues, presumably the few years ahead of you. But look, a mentor is not always somebody that’s like 20 years older. I mean, a mentor can be, a mentor can actually be someone younger than you. I mean, it’s purely that you have an expertise. that you’re eager to share with others to empower them to really achieve the best that they’re capable of.

[00:48:07] And I think that mentorship piece also, Evon, particularly if we’re talking about getting an associate on the path to partnership, that is absolutely huge. Yes. Because if you show that, that associate the time and you invest in them, even if you invest in them as simply your time invested in them. to have these mentorship sessions to show them the analytics, maybe even show them the books, get into calculating share costs, get into evaluating the handoff and some of the sales skills that perhaps you, where you are now in your career, take for granted how much you’ve developed simply over time, but understand someone early, you know, they, they need to be empowered with some of this stuff.

[00:48:50] So I think the mentorship piece for anyone, it’s imperative because, you know, it. Don’t think you’re going to hire somebody and you’re never going to cross paths with them and they’re just going to keep serving your patients and keep serving your patients well and you’ll just pay them every two weeks.

[00:49:04] Ain’t going to happen. You got to be actively engaged in that relationship with that associate. And if it’s someone that you’re eyeing to be the, the, the, the, the future, your future business partner or owner of your business, then even more so for you to, for you to lean into that.

[00:49:22] Best Practices to Onboard a New Associate Optometrist

[00:49:22] So let’s, let’s drive that then let’s follow that into, I guess, the last thing to touch on is what are some best practices to make that transition as successful as possible in terms of training and mentorship, in terms of starting out with fewer days, leading to more days, like what, what are some of the best practices to make sure that when you onboard a new associate, there’s as best of an outcome, at least as you know, you’re increasing the likelihood of a good outcome as possible.

[00:49:48] That’s a great question, Evon. And I will say this ties back to a core process that within Akrinos we apply to every, every client need, every client case, but also it’s a core process that you all utilize in Optometry Wealth Advisors, that doctors use in serving patients. The first step of the process is this.

[00:50:11] And by the way, the process is what? Analyze, strategize, implement. Okay. So step one, analytics. So the analytics that you’re going to want to evaluate when bringing on that associate and Evon, you touched on some of these, right? Know your numbers, know your production analytics, how many patients are seen, how they’re segmented across vision, medical, specialty care, and digging into the retail side of the business and understanding how those patients are converting.

[00:50:39] And then conversely, looking at the cashflow, the other side that we don’t see on the production side, right? Because the other side has what? Chair costs. Basically like, hey, we got this money coming into the business, but now what’s going out of the business? What are we having to spend to keep this thing running?

[00:50:55] So, so that being said, it’s a matter of the analytics. And I believe for a new associate doctor, the better they can understand what the day to day of the business looks like, as far as patient flow, the need in serving those patients, the better. So analytics, understand your patients, your production analytics, and understand the cash flow analytics because that’s going to come full circle when that associate does come in.

[00:51:21] Step two is strategy. And this is something, as a matter of fact, I write about this quite frequently in different capacities and I like to speak about this and it’s all about a stakeholder centric strategy. Right? And in the context of the practice, there are three core stakeholders. There’s going to be patients.

[00:51:41] There’s going to be people, as in your team, and there’s going to be the practice, namely like the bottom line of the practice. Again, this is a business. We need to keep this thing humming along, okay? Right, right, right. So, we need to ensure that the strategy is going to empower and serve each of our stakeholders.

[00:52:00] So, for instance, if we’re going to roll out a new strategy or new tactic in the business, and it undermines our staff, That’s not going to be a sustainable strategy, right? So, so even if it’s something that maybe delights patients, and does good for the bottom line of the practice, but if your staff don’t like it, good luck.

[00:52:22] Flip side of the coin, we can have something that staff love, and patients love, but aw, crap, we’re bleeding money through this, it’s not sustainable. And then last but not least, you can have something that is profitable for the practice, and the staff love it. It, but if your patients aren’t into it, it’s not gonna take flight.

[00:52:42] So when you’re putting together your strategy and Bri and pulling this associate in and onboarding them, just ensure that what you’re asking of them is something that all of your stakeholders are gonna be fans of. Your team, your patients. and the practice economics. And that then leads us to the third piece, to ensure success, right?

[00:53:05] So we started with the analytics, let’s be sure we know our numbers, production and cash flow. Once we know those numbers, then we use those analytics to develop our strategy. That’s what? A stakeholder centric strategy that’s gonna delight and empower everyone, the practice, our people, and our patients.

[00:53:23] And then third is implementation. And this is really all about how do we do it? Follow up, accountability, and engagement. And that’s where I like to say there is no substitute for the weekly team meeting. For that new associate doctor, there is no substitute for a daily meeting. Remember, they’re early. And even if they are established in their career, they’re still new to your practice.

[00:53:46] So you really need to invest that time with them. So that’s why it’s so critical in the implementation piece. That you have some, some change champions in your office, some business builders in your office who’s really engaged in the context of the new associate, this is oftentimes going to be maybe a practice administrator that can serve as that, that, you know, that lead person, perhaps even that mentor to that associate when you as the practice owner or are not in office, right?

[00:54:15] So having that change champion in your office, having that business builder in your office, that’s going to really ensure that that associate feels the love. And I mean feel the love, not only the pat on the back, you’ve done a good job, smiles, but also feel the love with some other things we were touching on, which is like infrastructure.

[00:54:32] Do they have, does our associate have the staff they need to be successful? Does our associate, are they getting the patients on their schedule to be successful? These types of things. So, so follow that simple three step process, know our analytics, develop that stakeholder centric strategy. And then the implementation piece, which is all about consistency and follow up to the plan.

[00:54:53] Yeah, it sounds like a big part of implementation is what we’ve talked about earlier when looking for an associate. It’s making sure there’s a fit with vision and mission, which the practice would need to know what their vision and mission is, right? A culture fit. I mean, a lot of times we call that there, there needs to be a fit for the culture, the practice, That communication and training and sort of mentorship and someone leading that onboarding effort is really important, you know, especially if you are trying to maintain a certain set of processes and procedures, a certain, a certain standard of care, you don’t want to have anybody doing something differently than everyone else.

[00:55:28] That training and communication is going to be really important. How, how about making sure that Patients are ending up on the new associates schedule versus the owner doctor. Are there any best practices to make sure that staff’s comfortable referring over to that new doctor, that patients are comfortable with it, that it’s well marketed?

[00:55:51] You know, what, what are your thoughts around that?

[00:55:53] That’s a really great question. And that is a question that is absolutely a, on a practice basis. Okay. And so, and I say that from the standpoint of. Legacy practices, long standing patient relationships. But I also say that with high medical practices, where you may have that same provider you want serving that patient, you know, the glaucoma patient that’s coming in every six months for checks and glaucoma, right?

[00:56:22] We want to ensure that they are plugged into the same provider, right? So, as it were, the quickest way to fill that patient’s schedule is for your scheduling team, whoever schedules patients in your office, or if it’s a piece of software you use for patient only scheduling, to have everything be first available.

[00:56:45] Do not name names. It’s all about first availability. Interesting. Now, if a patient, if a patient So the reason why I’m saying that, Evon, is because I believe, and again, there’s no hard data on this. This is kind of more like experiential, if you will. But the moment that we start saying, Hey, would you like to see our legacy doctor?

[00:57:06] Or would you like to see our new doctor that you’ve never heard of? I mean, not likely that they’re going to say this one. Okay, great. Well, there we’ll get you there. They’re first available in three weeks, but we’ll get you scheduled there. We’ll look forward to seeing you in three weeks. Yeah. As opposed to fantastic.

[00:57:21] We can’t wait to schedule your appointment. What’s the best day of the week for you? Yeah. Thursday afternoon is great. Our first Thursday afternoon is tomorrow afternoon at this time. Let it start with First Available, then when you get them scheduled and committed to that time of First Available, then, fantastic!

[00:57:44] You will be seeing Dr. fill in the blank. Now, there still may be, there may still be some pushback there, but understand, Why did the patient call the practice? To get an eye exam. www. optometrywealth. com

[00:57:59] Yes,

[00:58:00] or to get a foreign body removal, whatever the case, you know, they called the practice for care, so let’s get them scheduled for care, then we’ll let them know who their provider is, and if they object, we’ll switch them, but once, again, we’re meeting the need, that’s why they called, they called for care, great, we can provide you care, this is the earliest day and time we can provide you care.

[00:58:24] This is a mentality shift. It’s almost in like an identity shift for probably the underdoctor too, is you’re, you’re getting patients to see the practice and the eye care of the practice, not the eye care of the doctor. And the practice has a standard of care and a patient experience that is hopefully excellent in the future.

[00:58:41] And whoever’s there is going to be providing, assuming you follow the good implementation steps, it’s going to be providing that same excellent patient care. So you’re changing the mentality of really everybody, probably, especially at that first associate. So we’re seeing the practice, the patients are seeing the practice, we’re not just seeing the doctor anymore.

[00:59:02] Absolutely, Evon. And you know, and that’s, if you think back to earlier in our conversation, we were just talking about like the changing face of optometry and modern full scope optometry and talking about technology and how technology and equipment and software and AI and all these things, that’s really what’s driving a lot of this, but that also means what we need to relinquish control.

[00:59:28] We need to delegate. That’s a tough one. Yeah. Oftentimes, I say oftentimes, maybe not oftentimes, but well, I’ll just ask you as the listener.

[00:59:42] Is your resistance rooted in your ego? Yeah. Because if it is, that’s what’s going to hold your business back in the long run.

[00:59:53] Planned pause for self reflection. Planned pause.

[00:59:56] Holy cow. Man, was that a baller. Planned

[00:59:58] pause for self reflection. That’s, that’s, that’s a tough question. I mean, that’s a tough question for us as owners who’ve, you know, many times have built, built the business from scratch a lot of the time to sort of let that go.

[01:00:10] That’s, that’s something that, that’s a hurdle. That’s part of those capacity constraints is that’s one of those hurdles that, We often need to get ourselves out of the way. Erich, this has been fantastic. I think I can take the rest of your day if you allowed me to, but I think we’ll, we’ll have to stop here.

[01:00:25] The Final Question

[01:00:25] One last question I’ll just ask as we wrap up here is as you think about the future of optometry, particularly here around private practice optometry, what excites you the most?

[01:00:36] Oh, wow. I think what excites me the most is The degree to which, so we know, and again, y’all, look, Evon, I know you mentioned you were going to drop the link to that essay, and so it’s presented as a two part article series in Review of Optometric Business, but what excites me the most is exactly what I identify in that essay.

[01:01:02] Looking at the facts, because the facts are this. Right now, in our healthcare system here in the U. S., provider burnout rates are going through the roof. The cost of care continues to climb. The overall quality of care and patient experience here in the U. S. healthcare system is questionable. It’s on the skids.

[01:01:23] It’s on the decline. But Evon, when you look at private practice healthcare as a segment of the healthcare system, we actually see that in private practice, our providers are experiencing less burnout than national averages. The cost of care to patients out of pocket and to the system is below benchmark of national average and the quality of care, patient experience, and patient preference is radically higher than national benchmarks.

[01:01:58] That’s also, Evon, look, that’s why we do what we do at Akrinos, our mission to make the business of eye care approachable, accessible, and profitable to ECPs that are starting, scaling, and selling their business. And I believe, I believe we are yet to see the best of what our, our, our industry and the profession of optometry has.

[01:02:22] It’s right there in the future. And I can’t wait. I can’t wait to greet it.

[01:02:26] Well, I can feel your, your. I can feel the opportunity and just your passion for it coming through the screen here. And I, I love the answer. So Erich, I, again, I appreciate your time. This was great. I will throw all of the links to everything we’ve talked about in the show notes, including Erich’s contact information and Akrinos information.

[01:02:44] For the listener, please reach out. If you have questions, reach out to Erich and I. If you have experiences, listener, that you’d like to share of how you entered that process, Please do, we’d love to see those and, and learn from those as well. If you have disagreements, send them to Erich. He’ll, he’ll be glad to see those disagreements.

[01:03:01] No, um, but we appreciate your time and your attention and we will catch you on the next episode. In the meantime, take care.

[01:03:09]